Be Hopeful - David Springer, Fulbright Scholar

David C.N.R. Springer, Fulbright foreign student scholar, award-winning youth leader and Prison Officer shares with us his story.

Currently he is completing an M.A. in Communications and a Masters in Social Work. David shares with us his views on the importance of communications both from a work and life perspective. He discusses the importance of asking questions, prayer and optimism on his life path.

 Prison can be considered a last hope for many who have been failed by the social structures which we usually take for granted such as school, family, church and community. Restorative justice a popular term internationally is an initiative he would like to build upon on his return to Trinidad and Tobago.

He shares the inspirational message that now could be the best incubator for many and not to loose hope even in the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic.

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Transcript

Be Hopeful/David Springer

SPEAKERS

Beverly Foster-Hinds, David Springer

Beverly Foster-Hinds  00:02

Welcome to the tune into yourself podcast. This is your host, Dr. Beverly Foster-Hinds, Executive and Business coach. This programme is for persons who want to make decisions which are in alignment with their true selves, and which can take them to the next level in their career, business and life. Our guest today is Mr. David C.N.R. Springer. He's a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago, a Fulbright foreign student scholar, and an award-winning youth leader. He is currently the Branding Manager for Andrews University Graduate Student Association in Michigan, USC. David, welcome.

David Springer  00:54

Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  00:57

Great. How are you today?

David Springer  01:00

Today I am trying to be settled, happy and not rushing too much.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  01:13

 Great. Alright. Well, one day at a time. Alright, David, tell us a little bit: You're at Andrews University. You currently completing Master's in communication?

David Springer  01:27

I am doing a Master's in Communications Studies at University of the Southern Caribbean in Trinidad. I'm just finishing the thesis portion of that. And I'm also about to graduate from a Masters of Social Work at Andrews University. 

Beverly Foster-Hinds  01:42

Oh, so you're doing two masters at the same time?

David Springer  01:45

More or less.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  01:46

More or less. Okay. Alright. Tell us a little bit about... you say you would have started your studying here at USC in Trinidad. Then now you're in Michigan. Tell us a little bit about that journey from St. Joseph, Trinidad to Michigan, USA.

David Springer  02:10

Okay, sure. So I would have started off doing my undergrad at the University of Southern Caribbean via the extension programme with Andrews University. And then I would have graduated in 2016 with a Bachelors of Arts degree in English. I also work for the Government of Trinidad Tobago at this point in time. I am a prisons officer. I was last attached to the Communications Department of the Trinidad and Tobago Prison Service. So during that time, my curiosity, would have developed and I guess working in the field of communications, opened my mind to want to study communications in more depth. And the programme that I saw that was most aligned with the type of communication that I wanted to do, which was strategic communications, was at USC. They had that Master's that specially delivered a content that was about strategic communications and crisis communication.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  03:09

And then I see you're a Fulbright Scholar. So this is interesting. You would have worked in the prison; you would have been a prison officer here in Trinidad and Tobago and then you would have been doing the communication... doing your masters, then you would have... tell me... 

David Springer  03:26

...I would have applied. I applied for a Fulbright scholarship in 2018. And after going through several rounds of selection, I was eventually selected to receive a Fulbright scholarship. I would have gained entry into four different schools in the US, including Columbia University, University of Pennsylvania, Florida State University and Andrews University. The decision to come to Andrews University was one because it was my alma mater and two because of the fact that it has an excellent atmosphere for family. And I was intending to carry my family with me. Also, the Social Work programme in Andrews University has an excellent track record of having just about 100% pass rate for licensure. So the academic prowess of the department also drew me to Andrews University as well.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  04:23

And tell me a little bit about the connection that you see between social work and communication.

David Springer  04:31

Well, I see communication in everything. That being said, it means that to be a social worker, you must communicate effectively. And you have to communicate strategically, when you are attempting to work on any of the levels of social work, whether it be the micro level, which is an individual, or on the meso level, which is in groups and then on the macro level, which is major systems. So on any of those levels, you must be able to communicate effectively. And also, I think both of the spheres allowed me to communicate messages of hope, which is what I want to do right now. And that's become much more valuable, especially in light of the covid-19 pandemic.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  05:16

You know, I always say everything is connected. So it's interesting how you've connected the social work and the communication and the message of hope, which as you've said, is so needed now. How did you get into the prison service? What attracted you to that?

David Springer  05:35

So my both parents were volunteers when I was a child; both of them volunteered in different types of ministry. They volunteered to teach at the prisons. And then my dad was also eventually seconded out of the Ministry of Education, into the Ministry of National Security, to be a teacher at the training centre. And I learned and had initial exposure to the prison service from there. So the walls that are normally built up in the minds of many people, were not in my mind at that point in time. And then the opportunity arose for me to enter the prison service, and I went up for selection, and was selected. I had to go through a grueling 10-month process of training, during which time I was also completing my Bachelor's at the University of Southern Caribbean. I think that the ability to see how lives are changed from behind prison walls is something that Trinidad and Tobago and the wider world, needs to understand is possible. I have seen it personally, myself, within that context, and my hope is to be able to use the information and knowledge that I gained during the Fulbright experience to continue in that vein in the Trinidad and Tobago prison service.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  07:01

So you plan to come back to the prison service?

David Springer  07:04

Definitely.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  07:05

When are you supposed to return?

David Springer  07:07

By mid-year, this year.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  07:09

Oh, okay 2021. I wish you all the best, you know, because we need it. And that sort of - you will correct me if I'm wrong - is it restorative justice? 

David Springer  07:24

Very Correct. It is a restorative justice model that they're using.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  07:31

Hmm. And that's something I read a lot. So you know, I would have heard that term and it kind of stuck with me, because I think, you know, you can't waste a life. You need to really help people, and people do make mistakes, and they genuinely want to change, but some of them they need a lot of help.

David Springer  07:52

And also, one of the things I've learned a while in this Master - because I did two specializations, one in trauma and one in mental health - is that many times we don't understand that the environment plays a significant role in how the person is able to function or cope with the stressors that are coming towards them. Many persons have come from traumatized communities, and so much so that all of the social systems of the society, whether it be school, the church, whatever it is, all of those have failed. Even the court systems would have failed, and that's why sometimes when those persons reach to the prison, that's the final hope for them.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  08:42

That's an interesting juxtaposition, saying that prison is like the final hope for them. I think it sounds almost to me, like an oxymoron. Because, you know, when you think about prison, at least for me, I think hopeless; that sense of despair. It's interesting how you juxtapose it with hope. Do you want to explore that a little bit more for me?

David Springer  09:09

So it's only hopeless if society doesn't support the initiatives that would really allow for successful change. And also, I can say that in terms of societal change, it’s necessary, because criminals or prisons would have had a criminal history, or those who would have offended against the law, are persons just like you and I, who would have gone through all of the same processes that we go through in terms of receiving our different types of social structuring. However, the difference is, somewhere along the line, there was a system that wasn't in place to help. So if we see that one of the ways in which the prison system can become that beacon of hope and light; it's a concept that's very foreign to us in Trinidad and Tobago. We see it as a place where we throw away the refuse of the nation's human capital. However, that might become the best recycling centre to generate what we need for the future. And it's something that's happening worldwide. It’s a phenomenon that's been experienced.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  10:29

That is a challenge. I could definitely see where your communication skills would definitely be needed, because you would need to be very persuasive. Also, you know, in trying to get people to see things in the way that you are describing it, because it is really opposite, I would want to say, to I think how we generally look at it.

David Springer  10:45

That realization only came to me from being within the system itself. Because I had the same view initially, that it was basically a place to keep persons inside of there until they came back home. But that just promotes a revolving door syndrome and leads to increased recidivism rates. And it doesn't treat with the heart of the problem.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  11:27

Now, in terms of highlights in your career, you mentioned the impact that your parents would have had; their involvement and you seeing and becoming more aware of the communication, social, etc. If you had to see a key highlight on your journey to where you are now, what pops into your head?

David Springer  11:52

There are so many different things that are popping into my head at this moment. But I really do think that I do owe my entry into the prison service as one of the things, and even my entire service within the Trinidad and Tobago prison service, has allowed me to expand my horizons mentally, being that I needed to understand that there can be a paradigm shift. And even within my own life, it forced me to introspect, because when I was interacting with persons who were my age who were awaiting trials for extended periods of time, or who would have been serving long periods of time, it made me realize the only difference between that person and myself was the sound of a judge's gavel hitting the bench. Any one of us can easily go down that road. And I think for me, recognizing that, allowed me to start to think of how can I assist someone else? How can I prevent another person in the next generation from making the wrong decision, making the wrong choices, going along the wrong path, so that they would not end up in this place, so that they can possibly experience a different measure of hope without having to come to this last station?

Beverly Foster-Hinds  13:18

If you had to visualize - and I'm sure you've done that - what would you like to see for your vision for Trinidad and Tobago? In terms of the knowledge and the experience that you would have gained over time, what would you, ideally, like to see?

David Springer  13:39

Okay, I would love to see Trinidad and Tobago become a trauma-informed society, one that allows a person to feel what they're feeling, and treat with their feelings effectively. I think one of the major things we do in the Caribbean, our culture is very much post-colonial and post-slavery... it has a post-slavery and postcolonial reality. It made us very much emotionally enclosed. We do not feel as though we can express ourselves effectively without aggression, without violence, without some form of negative behaviour. So, for me, I would like for us to become trauma-informed as a society, meaning that if we all understand what trauma is and how it has affected us, we will treat each other differently. And there's a particular model, which is called the Sanctuary model, which is by Dr. Sandra Bloom, which speaks about asking questions. And the question is not what's wrong with you, but rather what happened to you. And I think we need to start to ask that question a little more, because it changes the perspective in which we see the person or fellow man. We view the person as not just a person who has something wrong with them, but someone who has had something terribly wrong happen to them, or a series of things [happen to them]. So, because of that shift in point of view and perspective, we then see, how can I help? We used to be a country where everyone wants to help. Your neighbour would help you; their community would come together and help each other; communities would help each other. And this is something I would like to see fostered once again, within our country's social context.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  15:29

What can I do to help you? I mean, that is something, you know, in business, that is supposedly a customer-centric view. So I guess, it's like a people-centered sort of focus, you know, where it's like, I saw something today and it talked about the fact - and I all the time you're seeing more and more of it - where they're encouraging people to be kind to each other, because we do not know what someone is dealing with. And that is the truth. You're seeing a behaviour, but you have no clue what's behind it.

David Springer  16:08

And I also think it's because we've had a cultural shift over the years, from a collectivist society, to a more individualistic society. That has been because of various cultural influences from, I guess, abroad, that has changed the way in which we view ourselves and our fellow man in Trinidad and Tobago. I think that us making that shift back towards that collectivist society where we knew we had to depend on each other, it will bring a lot more success in all of these spheres of endeavor that Trinidad and Tobago can do.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  16:43

I think so. Yeah. Because I mean, we need to work together to solve problems. In terms of strengths, a couple of strengths, two strengths, that you would say have helped you so far, what would they be as you progressed through life?

David Springer  17:06

I think one of them has been a developed sense of faith. There is a description in theology that talks about the numinous experience, that sense of awe and wonder that you experience possibly walking into a beautiful building or seeing nature and its grandeur, where you know that there has to be something greater than yourself. So that sense of faith, that connection, has helped me immeasurably. And aside from that, one of my key traits - I'm not sure if it's a good trait or not - it's to ask a question. You never know what the response would be, and there can only be two responses, yes or no. And if the person says, yes, that's what you needed. And if they say no, that's also what you needed. And that positive outlook is what has helped me to get through some of the toughest times so far.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  18:04

We all have challenges along the way on our journey. And you talk about your optimism and your faith helping you through. Any major constraint you might have had to address along the way?

David Springer  18:20

Many challenges. When I was 10 years old, I had to move from Trinidad to London, England. My family initially had separated. So just the separation and divorce was a major challenge for me. Then moving to a new country, living there for five years, and then being surreptitiously returned to Trinidad and Tobago - and I say that because my mom's mom had passed away, and my mom made a decision to return to Trinidad immediately following that. I was a minor and I didn't have a choice, so I got on a plane with her. And then there were a series of challenges in terms of, I guess, finances. Everyone has a challenge terms of finances. My parents were not the richest people. The community that I hail from, it's an area that is surrounded by places where persons have lower socioeconomic status. So those were some of the challenges I faced. Yet, I think one of the major things I've seen that's helped me through those has also been my family, on both sides. They've stood behind me through thick and thin to help me through it as well.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  19:36

That's critical. Now in terms of you, we have gone along the way... you talked about your exposure with your parents, how you entered the prison service and you know, along the way, you've grown and you've seen things in a certain way and connected what you needed in order to deliver the message of hope, as you say that you would like. You know, in terms of making important decisions, how would you say you make important decisions? Do you use your head, your heart, your gut, do they need to be in alignment? How do you go about making important decisions?

David Springer  20:13

So for me, I've developed a process, which is a two-step process. The first one is I pray. And the second step is I act. And it may seem strange, but it's as simple as that. I pray and ask for guidance, and then I act in accordance with the guidance that I receive. But more importantly than that, I also take time to introspect. And I also take time to jot down options. I also list pros and cons. Those are some of the other techniques that I do use. And I also use other persons who might be more experienced, or more mature than I am, as sounding boards to get advice from, because I think experience is one of the greatest teachers and that cannot be overemphasized. So when you speak to persons who have walked the road before you, it does give you a better sense of what are the possible pitfalls, what are the possible challenges you may face, issues you may encounter, and it helps you to make a decision that is not only based on intuition and your gut, but it's also based on a logical process that is evidence-based as well.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  21:28

So you have things lined up. And as according to you, you pray and then you act. And that works for you, and continues to do so. Now, especially the field that you're in and that you'll be shipped into in terms of using your communication and your social work. And in terms of even the position that you have now, the branding manager - tell me a little bit about that, for Andrew's University Graduates Student Association. What does that really entail?

David Springer  22:05

So all of the graduate students who attend Andrews University, form a part of that association. That includes those who are on the campus physically, and those who study remotely. So there are thousands of students around the world who are studying at the graduate level at Andrews University. And I am part of an executive that makes decisions for the benefit of the graduate student population. We lobby on behalf of students to the administration. And another key aspect of what I do specifically, is trying to network, to make sure that we have sufficient support from the stakeholders that are engaged with the association. Aside from that, I am part of the team that's made up of the President, the Public Relations Manager and myself, who helped to chart the course and vision for the association itself. Also, finding new opportunities for us to be able to engage in, I guess, community outreach and engagement opportunities. So there are several ways in which we've done that. One of the things we did when COVID-19 hit, we made sure that some of the graduate students, most of them on campus, we lobbied for them to be able to have food. There were times people didn't have money to eat. So we linked up with one of the NGOs that's in the area, to make sure that they had sufficient food and clothing, to make sure that persons would have even had the ability to talk to a group of mental health professionals to deal with the traumatic effects of the pandemic and the things that they were going through. And that was just an example of one of the things that has come out of my office so far. We have ongoing things that deal with branding, for the association as well, to make sure that the brand of the university and the association is well supported.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  24:13

In terms of your experience as a Fulbright Scholar. What would you say, if you had to give... and I'm you're going to tell me of a few highlights well. But you know, something that really stands out to you. Because, you know, you hear the term Fulbright Scholar - a lot of people, I think that they might not be too familiar with it. I mean, it's just something you hear. So if you could just tell us a little bit about your experience with it, with the whole programme, and stuff like that.

David Springer  24:42

Sure. So the Fulbright Foreign Student programme is the flagship scholarship opportunity from the US Government, US Department of State. It’s administrated by IIE, Institute of International Education, and it affords students from around the world to come to the US to study at a US University, at the graduate and postgraduate level, it’s really and truly a cultural exchange, so you have to be here physically. You're supposed to be learning about American culture, and sharing your culture with the person that you're interacting with, while earning an education in the US. And it is focused on you being able to return to your home country, to be able to boost the capacity, I guess, of your country as well. It has been a rich and rewarding experience for me thus far. I didn't expect to be here, having this particular opportunity, but I'm very grateful for it. I have been learning techniques in trauma and mental health that I have started to apply. It has afforded me the opportunity to do workshops and training with persons as far as Indonesia, Thailand, Australia, Kenya. Just a month ago, I did a workshop for about almost 100 people in Colombia, in South America, about the same topics: about trauma, stress, and even the relationship between the COVID-19 pandemic. And it was extremely well received. So I think it's just opening up a world of possibilities for me. I'm extremely grateful for having had that opportunity.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  26:32

And if you had to give advice to a young person, because you know, you talked about the support that you would have gotten from your family. You talked about the importance of the environment. You talked about, you know, the question when you said, what happened to you rather than what's wrong with you. If you have to give some advice to a young person who is, you know, unsure of what career path to follow, what sort of advice would you give them?

David Springer  26:59

To be your authentic self. That may look different, for different people. However, in terms of us moving forward, I can see it as being one of the key things that has helped me to move forward so far. Don't be afraid to stand up for what you believe is correct and right. That's one of the things that's also taken me through some very difficult circumstances. And don't be afraid to ask for advice. It's never an embarrassing moment if you don't know something. If you don't know something, ask a question and learn something. Because it's only you who can request the assistance, and you have so much to gain from just asking that question. The other thing is, don't be afraid to hear the word No. Because that's just one door closing, and thousands of other doors opening at the same time. Because when you get the answer, no, to this question, it means that there are a thousand other questions that you can have answered, and the answers to those could be yes. So don't be afraid to ask a question and hear the word no. I think one of the things we have culturally, in Trinidad, is that we are afraid to hear these words, No, you can't or No. There's nothing like that. It does not exist. You can. You can. You just need to find another route. Just need to ask someone else. Just find a different path.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  28:38

Just find a different path. And you're right. People [will say], "well they told me, no", and that's the end of the conversation.

David Springer  28:53

That ties in directly to my own experience of getting into the prison service. I went, I stood up there at five or 4:30am, until around seven or eight when they asked, and when I got there, I was told that the certificates that I had needed an equivalency letter. So I wouldn't have been able to be allowed to enter after having spent hours there. And then instead of hearing No, I said, you know what? Someone must be able to help me. I called the Ministry of Education; I went down to Port of Spain from Arouca to the Ministry of Education to ask, "do y'all know how to get an equivalency letter?" "Do you all know what I have to do?" And went all around,  I spent about three or four hours walking around Port of Spain in the hot sun, looking to find out how I could get an equivalency letter. I eventually reached home and was frustrated, and I decided to call back the prison headquarters. And that was a key moment for me. Because it was finding another path. It just so happened that the person who answered the phone at the time had the very same type of qualifications that I had, which were from England. And they said, Hey, no, we can accept this. And they told me, you can go back down to Arouca, the path is now clear for you. And now it's seven years later, and I'm in the prison service. And I believe that I've been allowed to have a very fulfilling experience.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  30:33

You have to persist. Persist, persist, persist. Is there anything else you'd like to add, David?

David Springer  30:44

I don't think there's anything else that I would like to add at the moment. But I would love to thank you so much for the opportunity to your audience, to share my story, to share words of encouragement and words of hope. And to let persons know that even though we're in a pandemic, it's not hopeless. This actually might be the best time for you to find a different path. It just may be the best incubator for the most wonderful experience of your life. It's just could happen, and it's around the corner. 

Beverly Foster-Hinds  31:18

The best incubator. Well thank you so much, David, for being our guest this evening. 

David Springer  31:25

You're welcome. And thank you.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  31:27

Thank you for listening to this episode of tune into yourself. Our guest, David Springer, discussed the notion of prison being the last hope and the shift in perception which occurs when we ask what happened to you, rather than what's wrong with you. Please Like and Share. I look forward to chatting with you again soon.