Dare Greatly - Dr. Kizanne James-McCarthy, MD, Global Health Specialist

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight  that knows neither victory nor defeat." 
Theodore Roosevelt

The above is a favourite quote of Dr. Kizanne James-McCarthy a multi- award winning development professional, Chevening Scholar, reproductive health consultant and physician with a passion for global health. 

Kizanne shares with us the importance of pushing through the many challenges of life without allowing these challenges to make us bitter. Although she has faced both health and financial challenges her understanding of the importance of community and showing compassion and empathy for our fellowman shines through. 

From overcoming her fear of public speaking to now speaking to global audiences and even doing her own Ted Talk her journey inspires us to live life and learn from the lessons it provides through our triumphs and failures! 

Transcript

Beverly Foster-Hinds  00:03

Welcome to the Tune Into Yourself podcast. This is your host, Dr. Beverly Foster-Hinds, executive and business coach. This programme is for persons who want to make decisions, which are in alignment with their true selves and which can take them to the next level in their career, business and life. Our guest today is Dr. Kizanne James-McCarthy. She's a multi-award winning development professional, Chevening scholar, reproductive health consultant and physician, with a passion for global health. Welcome, Kizanne. How are you today? 

Kizanne James-McCarthy  00:46

I'm fine. Thank you. 

Beverly Foster-Hinds  00:47

Okay, great. I'm glad that you could join us. Now Kizanne, I know that you have many accomplishments over the years. Did you always know that you wanted to be a medical doctor?

Kizanne James-McCarthy  01:00

I did. Interestingly, I went to a primary school where the teacher read Ben Carson's book, "Think Big" to the class. Every day, she would read a chapter from the book. And most of the class became doctors in the future, ironically. So, I guess that did help to have that influence. But since I was a kid, learning about Ben Carson's story, I wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to be someone that helps people, and I loved working in science and learning about science. It was really the career that I wanted to do.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  01:38

Okay, great. So, you knew from a young age. Moving onward from primary school, on that journey to becoming a medical doctor - we all know that is a long journey - what would you say are some key highlights that you would have had on that journey?

Kizanne James-McCarthy  01:58

I didn't have a particularly easy journey. I'm from a very humble family. My mom was a security guard and we didn't have much growing up. In fact, we needed support from teachers for food and transport to get to school. We would miss school a lot, because not all of the time we could have afforded to go to school. When we did finish school, I didn't get the grades I needed, to get into med school on a scholarship. And because my mom was a security guard, there was no way that we could pay tuition on our own. So, I had to work really hard. I applied for scholarships, I applied to the government and different businesses asking for funding to go to med school. I didn't get anything. In the end, I had to work. I worked three jobs - I was about 17 at the time - three jobs for a year and a half to earn one semester's tuition, but not to do medicine, because I couldn't afford tuition to do medicine, but to do biology. So, I went to the University of the Southern Caribbean, as it's called now. Before it was called Caribbean Union College when I was a student there a few years ago, and I did a biology degree. But there wasn't GATE at the time. In Trinidad there is government assistance with tuition, I think, I hope I'm calling it correctly. But it's the fund that Trinidadians get to go to school. There wasn't that in the days when I went to CUC. So, I had to work, put myself through school and beg for money from different funds. When I was in my first semester in school, after working a year and a half to save money for that first semester, I had a traumatic experience. I had to drop out of school for a year and a half again. I took a while to finish my first degree because I had challenges financially and different things happened in my life that prevented me from just having a streamlined process of going to school. But after I finished my first degree in biology, which eventually happened when GATE came on board, I was able to finance the rest of my education. I applied to medical school in Jamaica at the time. I don't know what it's like now, but most of us applied to Jamaica and that's where we got it. So, we went to Jamaica, and that was my first time leaving Trinidad and Tobago. It was exciting and it was scary, as a young person, because again, I didn't have all the money I needed. But with faith, I decided that I would still go. That was in 2010. I went to Jamaica and started medical school, finally... after seven years of trying to get into school.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  04:46

You mentioned the book, 'Think Big'. You mentioned persisting in your dream to be a medical doctor, despite the challenges that you would have gone through. What do you think helped you to keep pushing? Because a lot of people give up. So what do you think helped you to keep pushing?

Kizanne James-McCarthy  05:09

That's a very good question. I've been asked that before. Because my challenges didn't end even when I got into med school, as you could imagine... that was another bowl of challenges. I think I really wanted a better life for my family... for myself. I knew how hard my mom worked to give us the opportunities we had. She didn't get to finish high school; she didn't have support as she was a single mom; and she did everything she could to make sure that we would go to school. Just watching her dedication to that, you know, she could have given up on us and done other things if she wanted to, but she really invested in us. And I'm happy to say that my siblings and I are doing well now, because of her influence. So, she always pushed us forward. Regardless of what's happening - we had this mantra - regardless of what's happening, we must push forward; this is temporary, things will get better. Even though now, I'm adjusting that a bit, because I think self-care is also important. But in those days, it about was survival. And it's different when you're just trying to make it to the end. So yeah, that is what I think really pushed me to continue.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  06:35

I'm going back again to this book 'Think Big'. Does anything stick out for you or resonate with you from that book, that you might have carried or carry with you?

Kizanne James-McCarthy  06:47

I think it's the same attitude of pushing forward regardless of what's happening. Ben Carson also had a single-parent household, and his mum didn't know how to read. She used to pretend that she could read to encourage him to read and do his schoolwork. She sacrificed for him. I could relate a lot to that story, as a child, because we were really poor, and we would be teased a lot. We didn't have those brand name sneakers and stuff. In fact, our shoes had holes at the bottom, and we would put newspaper when it got holes, to protect our feet from touching the ground. I remember doing that all the time because after a while your shoes got worn, and so you just had to stuff it with newspaper and layer it up - that's how hard it was. Now I live in a white country, and I've worked in countries where it's predominantly white - it's very important to me to feel comfortable as a black person and to feel confident, because we tend to feel like we need to shrink ourselves, but we shouldn't. And so just being able to relate to that was very important. Another thing I need to add is that in my early years - my family is very religious - in my early years, we grew up in the church, and the church was very pivotal as well, in grounding us; in supporting us. I was very active in the community, and did a lot of community projects. I took that right through my life, and I think that's why I ended up in the career path that I am in and had the opportunities I had, because of the skills I learned from church. Standing up in front of the pulpit to lead choral singing... those are things that develop leadership skills. You develop the ability to speak to a crowd and to be a leader. The church also gave us the emotional support when mommy couldn't be around - because as a security guard, sometimes she would be out, doing 24-hour shifts, 36-hour shifts, sometimes 48-hour shifts. We wouldn't see her for a couple of days. But we had that church family who would step in, and mentors who would step in. There were a couple of people that really, really stepped in and were like surrogate parents for us, as things became really overwhelming for mommy. You know, they say that it's a village that raises a child. I know the culture changed a bit now, and people are more isolated in their family groups, but it's really important to let our children interact and meet with people in the community. That's where they become grounded and well-rounded, regardless of what challenges they might be facing in their own lives.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  09:39

Now, in terms of strengths - we kind of touched on it when you talked about pushing through - but what strengths would you say have helped you, and how do you continue to build on those strengths?

Kizanne James-McCarthy  09:57

I think one of my strengths is my compassion and my ability to relate and empathize with others. I've had many medical challenges. One in particular happened when I was in medical school where I was diagnosed with a rare disease, and needed to have surgery within the month. So, I had to go back to Trinidad in 2012 to have the surgery. I had to stop school again, while pursuing my dream. There's a thing in med school, where you tend to want to continue school within your academic year, but I had to go to a lower academic year with new students. I had to find new friends, and re-adjust to the system again, when I came back. Because of all these health challenges, it wasn't easy trying to remain emotionally grounded when all these things were happening. I think I was able to tap into that. Now when I have patients, I don't speak to patients like I'm better than them and like I know more than they know. I trust what they say. We have, I would say, a non-hierarchical relationship. They could call me by my first name. I don't go by "Doctor This" or whatever. We just converse, because we're all people; we're all going through our challenges, and we're just here to help each other. I think that's what is one of my strengths. Another strength, I would say, is my ability to be a leader. My leadership style is a bit different. I am an introvert; I'm on the quiet side; but because I trust people and because of my relationship with people, I try to look into the strengths of others, and tap into that and give them opportunities to develop that. So, I think I'm really good with managing teams because of that. I make the environment as neutral as possible. There isn't this feeling that they should be afraid to talk to me about any questions or any concerns, because I think the team has all the answers. The manager or the person in charge is supposed to really just support that team. You're there to serve; you're not there to impose yourself on others. So that's one of the other strengths I developed, and I think that happened from many years of working in community service; being involved in church; and also, being somebody who was the underdog in lots of circumstances, growing up and in my career.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  12:35

Right. And that emphasis on working with people's strengths, is so key. Because that energizes not only you, but it energizes the people themselves, so that they want to give more. In terms of the biggest challenge that you would have faced so far - because I mean, you would have faced many challenges - what would you say it is and how have you been able to overcome it?

Kizanne James-McCarthy  13:04

I think one of my biggest challenges was when I started working more in the global sphere; more internationally, being black. I'm not very traditional with my dreadlocks and my piercings. I am different, and I'm comfortable with being different. But people tend to think you're not equal because of your skin colour, or because of your gender, or whatever it is your sexual orientation, whatever it is. And when you step out of where you're comfortable, which might be your culture in Trinidad and Tobago or in the Caribbean, it's a new ballgame. It's a new thing to adjust to. You're finding your foot, and you're also trying to, I wouldn't say approve, but show your skills on this level. And so that was very challenging. I think, even when I was looking back, some of my biggest challenges would have been in my childhood when I didn't know what was going to come up ahead. So, I didn't always have that faith that things were going to be better. It seemed like I was moving blindly at the time. I didn't know that it was going to work out and that I'd become a doctor and I would have all these experiences in the end. Because at the time, I didn't have any food and I was being teased; we didn't have all we needed; my mom was in debt. We had all these challenges. Sometimes it was really hard to believe that things do get better... will get better, and that the work I was going to do, just focusing on my studies, would pay off some day. It doesn't always pay off, you know, and that's the thing that we need to understand sometimes. Putting your best at something doesn't mean it would be guaranteed. That's the reality of life. I knew that. I also had a lot of disappointments. So, I was very aware, and I guess, very mature for my age as well, because I didn't have the security as other persons who had more stability in their households, or in their environments. I had to be very street smart and know how to manage things because if I ran out of money, I didn't have mommy or daddy to call to replenish stocks, or someone to save me if I made a bad mistake. There wasn't any of that. I needed to learn to make decisions quite young, and make good decisions, because the consequences of me making a mistake would have been detrimental because of the avenues and resources that were available to me at that time. That has changed a lot now, but when you're young and you don't have those support systems, it's a bit difficult.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  16:03

It sounds to me like you were walking on a knife's edge a lot, or like you were on a tight rope. The name of the programme is Tune Into Yourself, and I am especially interested in how people go about making decisions. Some people say they follow their head, their heart, their gut. When you were at that age, making those decisions... if you look back now, what technique did you use to know if those decisions were right? And has that changed?

Kizanne James-McCarthy  16:42

I think I have a good answer for that. When I was in high school, I had a teacher that used to tell the class, "when you do something, think about how it would impact you in the next five years". That really stood out to me, and I think that's why I do leadership and strategy now... it's because I think about what would be the consequence of doing this - if I started smoking weed now; if I got pregnant very young; what would that do in terms of the bigger scheme of my life? And so, I was always guided by asking, "if I do this, how could it positively impact me, or how could it negatively impact me? And that was really helpful for me to decide, and to be able to envision the future based on what I was going to do; the type of friends I chose. I was very careful with the friends I chose. I didn't want to be with people that would lead me astray, because I knew what it's like to be poor and to have difficulties. I didn't have the teenage rebellious phase because I knew that making certain decisions had certain consequences, and it was because of that kind of thinking: "what would be the impact if I did that?'

Beverly Foster-Hinds  18:00

And you were very mature for that age, to be thinking about the future. A lot of people just live in the "now". And to make decisions, would you say use your heart, your head, your gut... because I mean, you sound like you use your head there. And also, you have a visioning skill. You can use common sense, which is not common, so that you are aware of certain things. If you think about it, if you reflect... Do you still follow that same sort of process now?

Kizanne James-McCarthy  18:34

I think I use multiple techniques, depending on the circumstance. There are times I make very emotional decisions that, I would say, taps into my intuition, but they're not usually right. I think what serves me the most is the logical-thinking-about-consequences kind of decisions, versus the ones where I go with how I feel only. I feel like emotions are dynamic, and they change based on what you're going through. Anything could affect how you feel. I think I lean towards the mental part. But I wouldn't say fully. I would say sometimes I go with how I feel more, but it depends on what the cost would be. It does depend on what the cost is and it depends on how heavy that decision is and what it's going to do to impact my life.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  19:30

And you're based in the in the UK now. Tell us a little bit about how you went from Trinidad, to studying in Jamaica, and now you're in the UK. How did that... if you can give us a brief snapshot of how that evolved.

Kizanne James-McCarthy  19:53

So when I returned to med school after having surgery, I decided to change my life and change my approach to things. When I started med school - and you know, going to med school was my dream and was the most important thing to me - I dropped everything. All I wanted to do was study. So there was no trying to make friends, there was no taking care of my health, there was no balance. It was just studying. And that wasn't me. Because even back home, regardless of what's happening, I was always in some extracurricular activity; doing community work; working for charity; volunteering in church. I think that helps to give you balance as well, even though you're also serving. So when I returned in 2012, I think 2013, to med school, I became highly involved in extracurricular activities, which was kind of rare for med students - med students mainly study. Because of that, some of my work started to get the attention of some of the people in the community and government officials. I started to get awards for leadership and for my community involvement, and eventually got into an international fellowship called Women Deliver Young Leaders, in 2015. They helped push my career forward as well. I got different opportunities in my final year of med school. I went to the UN and attended meetings there. I would speak on behalf of young people and healthcare and women's health, and it just spiraled into more and more opportunities. When I finished med school, I got a scholarship from the British government to do any masters I wanted - fully funded, Chevening that was the  UK Government scholarship programme for global leaders. So I came here and I did a master's in leadership and management in health and social care at Southampton University, where I lecture now. I then got another scholarship to study in Oslo, so I moved to Norway, did international community health and started working for global NGOs afterward. Currently, I work for FRIDA  the young feminist fund as the Resource Mobilization Manager, managing a portfolio of over 5 million US dollars. I'm soon going to be transitioning back to teaching and medicine within the next few months. So it started with doing community work and being involved. And just taking more and more chances. Also, I must admit that when I came back, I wanted to grow, and so I did courses. I did public speaking courses and I hired a coach using my money. Yeah, I was using funds I didn't have, but it was important for me to develop certain skills. And because I enrolled at a public speaking course at UWI, I had to pay separately and go to a different campus to do it. Again, being able to speak is very important if you want to improve your career. So that also helped me get other opportunities.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  23:10

I'm listening to you, and I really admire your community service. The serving aspect comes across very strongly in everything that you've said, from childhood, to where you are at now. I really hope that people get the message that the giving of yourself opens up so many opportunities. You're not doing it for opportunities, but it just does. I mean, you're doing something that's coming from your heart. I'm sure you would have had to juggle medical school which is no easy feat. So to juggle the community service along with medical school, etc. and to continue and to grow as you have...it is a pleasure to hear. I'm sure you would interact with young persons, as you've said, what advice would you give to a young person today, who may not be sure of where they may want to go and what it is, they want to do? What piece of advice would you give them?

Kizanne James-McCarthy  24:32

I think the only way to know what you're good at and to know what's meant for you, is to try things. Even if you change, its fine. I've studied medicine and I actually don't practice medicine. I've changed while working in different areas for so long. And that's okay. Sometimes it isn't about knowing exactly what you need to do, it's just about doing. Start somewhere. Start with things that you like. It could be something like what you're really good at doing, that's fine. If you're really good at doing makeup, see what you could do to push yourself as far as you can in that field. If you're really good at cooking, look at opportunities to develop that and to push that as far as you can. There is no box, there's no one perfect thing. For instance, when I was in school, it was either you became a lawyer, a doctor, engineer, teacher... it was this set thing. And the world is changing. It's no longer these set careers. It's so wide and vast, and it's just about you. And this is because of technology as well. You can market yourself online, and have access to markets and customers all around the globe, if you want to. I would say one, think about what you like and what you enjoy; what you're very good at; and listen to others. If somebody says you're really good at baking, or whatever it is, you're really good at math, or sciences, or you could be an academic as well. Tap into that. Try different things, and research people that are in that field. People who are successful in that field, try to reach out to them. You can find them online. Message them on Facebook; people are always willing to support young people who are trying. Look for avenues to develop that skill... that inner talent in you. And if it is an academic route, again, push yourself in that. If it is that you've decided to be a doctor, try to be the best that you can. Try to be the best in what you're doing by exposing yourself to other ways of thinking and opportunities out there.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  26:39

Start somewhere! I think that is imperative. Don't look for the perfect something before you start. Because you might never reach the perfect anything, and then you will be stuck there not having started anything. Is there anything else you would like to share, Kizanne? 

Kizanne James-McCarthy  26:58

There was a quote that I would paraphrase that really helped me when I was younger. It says, "far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor souls who neither enjoy it nor suffer much, because they live in a great twilight that knows not victory nor defeat." So the point of life is to live it. Don't be afraid to make mistakes, you will make mistakes. I can guarantee you that you will fail and you will make mistakes. But that's how you grow. That's how you learn. And there's nobody that can teach you that. That just comes from experience. You have to be willing to try. It's always better to try and put yourself out there; to do something that might be scary, because it will pay off in the end. There are things that I did that I was totally afraid of: public speaking is one. The first time I gave a speech, I ran off the stage crying before I even finished it. And years later I was speaking globally at TED talks and other big events because I didn't give up. It's always going to be better to try it than to not try at all.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  28:14

Yes, it's always good to try than not try at all. You don't want to live with regrets. And people always say they always regret what they didn't do. What they did, they did. But what they didn't do... the time would have passed. Well thank you so much, Kizanne. I really enjoyed speaking with you a lot. I am also an introvert myself and you know, people have all these ideas about introverts, that if you're an introvert you can't do this and that. I think it's just that people don't understand what introversion means. Introversion is basically where you get your energy from. That's what the word introvert means. It means that we need quiet time etc. It does not mean that we want to be in a box and shut away.

Kizanne James-McCarthy  29:14

Yes, it doesn't mean that you're shy or can't do something.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  29:21

Thank you so much, and I want to wish you all the best.

Kizanne James-McCarthy  29:26

Thanks for having me.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  29:37

Thank you for listening. Kizanne shared with us, the importance of being actively involved in community, and how in so doing, you open doors, not only for others, but for yourself. Self-care, and the importance of perseverance were also highlighted.  

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