Be a Light - Kevin Liverpool, Administrator CariMAN

Mr. Kevin Liverpool is the Administrator of CariMAN  a regional network of individuals and organizations working on transforming masculinities and engaging men and boys to promote gender equality and end violence against women and girls.

Kevin shares with us how his strengths optimism and patience helps him to go brave and continue doing this very necessary work. He was an educator for 10 years and through this and his own struggles as a teenager he appreciates the need to pay it forward.

Many persons helped him on his journey and he knows the importance of mentorship. The organisation has recently started a new project in conjunction with the IADB and he is excited to make a difference and leave a legacy.

Transcript

Kevin Liverpool/Be A Light

Mon, 3/22 11:25AM • 36:32

SPEAKERS

Beverly Foster-Hinds, Kevin Liverpool

Beverly Foster-Hinds  00:04

Welcome to today's episode of Tune into yourself. This is your host, Dr. Beverly Foster-Hinds, executive and business coach. In these interviews, we share information aimed at inspiring and motivating you, as you make decisions to take you to the next level in your business, career and life. Our guest today is Mr. Kevin Liverpool, Administrator of the Caribbean Male Action Network, CariMAN.

Kevin Liverpool  00:42

How can we address these very systemic and ingrained issues that create and sustain conditions where violence against women and girls are so common?

Beverly Foster-Hinds  00:58

Hi, Kevin, how are you doing today?

Kevin Liverpool  01:02

I, like most persons in Trinidad right now, am coming to terms with the murder of the young lady. It's a bit difficult dealing with that, especially as my work is on violence prevention, with a focus on men and boys. That news really also has me heartbroken as a father and as a husband. It's just a reminder of how unsafe our society continues to become.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  01:43

Yeah, that is very sad. It's a very traumatic experience. It happens - I would want to dare say - way too often. It shouldn't happen at all. It is really riveting and especially based in your in your current role, I imagine you would find it especially challenging, or you would really definitely feel it because of the work that you do. As the administrator of CariMAN, tell us a little bit about how you got to this job. How did you get to be the administrator?

Kevin Liverpool  02:37

So CariMAN is a regional network of organizations and individuals working on transforming masculinities, and engaging men and boys to promote gender equality and end violence against women and girls. As far back as I can remember, I've always been very interested in working with young men. Partly because, as a young man, I struggled with finding my identity; I struggled with knowing what I wanted to do in life; I struggled with personal fears and anxieties. And because I was fortunate to have persons who were patient and took time to work with me, it really impressed upon me the importance for other young men to have this. So from very early on, I started volunteering with different organizations that would work with young men in different settings. But it's only until recently that I adopted a focus on working with young men and with men, to promote gender equality, and to end violence. It moves beyond just that personal development of boys and men, to how can we address these very systemic and ingrained issues that create and sustain conditions where violence against women and girls are so common in our society and in the region. 

Beverly Foster-Hinds  04:12

Yeah, it's interesting you say that. You took personal ownership where you had your own areas that you wanted to address, and you had people along the way who were your mentors, and you're sort of paying it forward now?

Kevin Liverpool  04:34

Yeah, and paying it forward is really important. Because oftentimes persons who invest in us, they're not doing it for anything in return. So when we benefit from those investments, it is important that we are mindful that there are others coming behind us who need that type of support as well.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  04:53

Yeah, I think it's so important, what it is you do. If you could just share a little bit, just for clarity, so that person could have a better understanding as to what sort of activities the organization might be involved in.

Kevin Liverpool  05:16

Sure. As a regional network, it's important for us to develop and support a political agenda around promoting gender equality, and what that means is really at the legislative level, advocating for changes that would support the empowerment of women; that would make conditions safer for women; but would also make access to resources safer for both men and women. We engage a lot as well, in research work. We would have just completed a  country research study on men's involvement in sexual and reproductive health and rights. And really with a focus on looking at the barriers for men's involvement, and what is it about masculinity that would contribute to men not having good health seeking behaviour, and so on. We build on the strengths of local activities that are happening in the countries where we are currently working in. Currently, we work in eight Caribbean territories. We appreciate that the challenges are different in each country, even though there's a common thread across the region, there are different focuses. This local activity and local advocacy, informs our regional strategy. One of the projects that we are currently really excited about is a joint collaboration with the University of West Indies and the Caribbean association of National Psychologists Association, under the UNFPA's spotlight initiative, to develop a conceptual model of behavioural and cultural change. What this model will enable us to do is, one: avoid working in silos. There are many organizations across the region that work on similar issues. But we are all in our different corners. By having a model we're able to understand where each of us fits in, and how our work is connected, and how we can support the work of each other, thereby enabling us to have a greater impact. In Trinidad, we are really excited about a project we just started that is funded by the Inter-American development bank. This project would work with adolescent boys to help them challenge the net negative stereotypes and attitudes and beliefs around what it means to be a man. So simple things such as the saying, "boys are not supposed to cry", and analyzing where that come from, and what are the harmful effects of that on us - on our mental health, but also in our relationships. So there's different work happening in different parts of the region, and the role of CariMAN is to really tie it all together as a network. Additionally, CariMAN is the regional representative of the MenEngage Global Alliance. This is an Alliance across the world, of organizations, UN agencies, international NGOs, that work on engaging men and boys; more gender equality,

Beverly Foster-Hinds  08:43

I think it's so important to highlight. I mean, we didn't plan this interview to happen on this day, but everything is connected. So everything happens in the right time. I was listening to a radio announcer this morning, and she was talking about the unfortunate incident that would have happened with Miss Bharatt, and the whole thing was that no one is doing anything about it. I found that to be very disturbing, because I said there are people who are doing things. Sometimes - a lot of times - you don't hear anything about it. But that does not mean that there aren't people working on the issue; trying to impact and make a positive difference, so that you can have a whole eradication of the violence, and you can have the gender equality that you have discussed previously. Now, in reaching to this position, what would you say were a couple of key highlights in your career?

Kevin Liverpool  10:01

Previously, I worked as a secondary school teacher. And I think that gave me a lot of experience and meaningful work with young people that would have been formed and shaped the way that I see the work. I was a school teacher for about 10 years. I've experienced the highs and lows of that job, and also the debilitating effect of a bureaucratic system that, at times, may not seem to have young people's best interests at heart, because of how sometimes the system moves so slowly in addressing certain issues. But that would have really informed the way that I approach this work that I currently do. Additionally, I worked at the Ministry of National Security for a project that was called the citizen security programme. That was a community-based programme that worked with, what at the time, was called crime hotspots - these communities where there were high incidences of violent crime. We really worked to address these root issues: the most modifiable, the most proximal risk factors, that were leading young people and members of the community into outcomes. So those two in terms of career highlights, really shaped where I am today. Another important highlight, it's not a career highlight, but I think becoming a father really intensified in me, the urgency of working to make my country a better place. I really want to contribute to a society where I am comfortable that my son and my daughter can grow up and achieve whatever they dream to achieve; that they can live lives free from fear and violence. If my children ever asked me one day, "Daddy, what did you do?", I want to be able to give them an answer that would really set an example for them, and to leave a legacy as well for them to continue, knowing that their father contributed to making the place much better. Those are some highlights that really were signposts or milestones in my in my journey.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  12:38

I like how you said milestone in your journey. I like that you spoke about leaving a legacy. Because I think a lot of times, persons forget about that. They forget that they do leave a legacy, whether they plan to or not. So it's good to understand that you can be very intentional with the legacy that you do leave. I think that's important. Now, in terms of along the journey, you mentioned, some milestones, etc. If you had to name two major constraints, what would you say they were? And how were you able to address them?

Kevin Liverpool  13:20

So I've always had a challenge. The challenge was much bigger earlier in my career with time management. That was really an issue for me; not only in terms of being on time and completing deadlines, but also just organizing activities within my day. You know, that was really a struggle for me. Quite frankly, it's not something that anyone taught me growing up. It's not something that you learn at school, for example. Even though school is supposed to teach you that because you know they have the timetable, they have the structure. But there's no class on how to manage your time, and time management at school. I guess you're expected to stumble upon these skills. I think the shift came for me when I realized that time management was really manifesting as disrespect to the places around me. Because my poor handling of my time was sending a message to others, and to person that I care about, that I didn't respect their time, or my commitments to them. When I began to look at it within that frame, I began to take it more seriously and take that responsibility, to ensure that I come across as respectful to others, other organizations, for example. Another constraint, I think would be boundary setting. I want to think because of how caring and compassionate I wanted to be, I would allow myself to get involved in so many activities that it resulted in me not taking care of myself, by allowing no boundaries. So, just in the same way I had to learn to respect others, I also had to learn to respect myself. And that would mean setting appropriate boundaries, especially where it concerns work and where it concerns determining what I can and cannot do, and to what extent I can do things that I agreed to do.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  15:35

You've mentioned the two areas are setting boundaries and time management. I know you said you started to first respect yourself, etc. But are there any tools that you would have used? I mean, what would have helped you to move forward and to be able to improve those two areas?

Kevin Liverpool  16:01

Where it pertains to time management, what I do now is that I set goals. I start with goals. So I set what I would like to achieve for the week, and I take time. I read somewhere, that someone was encouraging persons to schedule meetings with yourself before you do anything else, and I found it really powerful. So I set these goals of things I would like to achieve for the week, and then I break them up into what the activities are, how much time I can allocate to each activity, and just keep monitoring those things by writing it down so that I can see it, and just keep monitoring it. Where I cannot fulfill an obligation, a call ahead and explain that I'm unable to do a particular thing. So in advance, I communicate and I manage the expectations that others may have on me. With regard to self-care, I began looking at the various aspects of my life: my physical health, my mental health, my social and emotional well-being and my spiritual wellness. So, in those four areas, I identified different activities that would feed those areas, and I really paid more attention to growing and maintaining good health in those areas. 

Beverly Foster-Hinds  17:38

Interesting lessons, there. In terms of strengths - all of us have strengths, you know, things that energize us. What would you say, were maybe two or three key strengths that would have helped you on your journey so far?

Kevin Liverpool  17:57

Definitely optimism, I would put this as one of my top strengths. I always believed that things will get better. I always dream of a brighter future. Regardless of how things look today, I always believe that we can make it better. And I think optimism is so important as a strength. So important as a quality. Because without hope, without that belief that we can improve, life is meaningless and difficult. Another thing that people who know me would tell you, is that patience is one of my strong points. And you know, I look at it in two ways. First of all, patience to endure the journey... it's connected to optimism. So even though I believe that tomorrow is going to be better, you have to be patient until the better comes. Also, patience with others. Not everyone is at the same place. Different things happen in people's lives. I believe it's really, really important to be patient with others, and allow them time to grow as well and try to understand life from their perspective. Be willing to be able to reach over and provide what they may need in order to be better to grow and to perform at a higher level. So, optimism and patience: my two top strengths.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  19:29

And you see in the inaugural speech that, that young lady gave for the new president in the US. There was a quote that was circulating from that speech, that sometimes you have to be the light. I think that with being an optimistic person, you are the light when there is no other light. So as I was listening to you, that came to me. That is really the connection there: being the light is really optimism and hope. If you don't have that, you're right, life becomes very, very difficult. Now in terms of the biggest challenge that you have faced so far...if you could share with us what that might have been, and how did you overcome it?

Kevin Liverpool  20:23

I used to be a perfectionist. I know sometimes people use that term very loosely. But I was a perfectionist in the clinical sense of the word. It was a very debilitating condition. It was one where it would not allow me to complete anything, because whatever I was doing never lived up to this extremely high standard that I had in my mind. I was always dissatisfied with work, and with things that I was involved in, because of this condition; this perfectionism. It was really holding me back: in my relationships, in my work, in my hobbies, everything. I couldn't get things done, because when I reached midway, and I looked at what was already there, I was never satisfied. Luckily, again, with support from someone else, I was able to work through and come to terms with what was the source of this perfectionism in my life. Why do I hold myself hostage like this? Or Why do I have these demands, these unrealistic demands on myself? Once I was able to identify the source, I think that's where healing and the journey began for me, moving away from that. Thankfully today, I'm not a perfectionist. I can say that. But I know that there are many situations that may cause persons to be overly critical, and overly judgmental of themselves and their efforts. It's a silent crisis. It's a silent pain. Because people see you and they assume you're so high performing, you are so passionate, and they don't know that on the inside, you are beating up yourself because of these unrealistic expectations that you have created, due to whatever situation that you would have faced in childhood or growing up. But once I was able to identify and tap into why I had this mindset, I was able to begin addressing it. Again, thanks to support from people who were willing to be patient with me.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  22:56

Self-awareness is the first step. Once you become aware, then you can do something about it, because you've become aware. I share that whole concept of how you've shared it, in terms of it being a silent epidemic, because people are waiting for some time when whatever will be perfect, to then reveal it to the world. And then some of them never reveal it, because it's never perfect. There's a push these days talking about people showing their authentic self, etc. and really and truly, what is more important is consistency. Because that is really more important. And to start. Whatever it is that you need to do, start it! And improve with time. You will learn as you go along. Maybe sometimes it comes from a fear of making mistakes. So there are lots of reasons why it comes out like that.

Kevin Liverpool  24:06

Yeah, a fear of being judged for mistakes as well. It's one of the things that I'm very conscious of as a parent, because we as parents can inflict significant harm on our children, when we do not allow them to fail, or when we do not help them understand that failures are a necessary part of  life. When we put that pressure on children, they become adults who will not start because they rather not start than fail.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  24:37

That is huge. Because if children are not taught that, and if they don't experience it more than they learn it - they have to experience it in how you interact with them - it really does cause many problems as they get older. Now, the podcast as you know, is tune into yourself. I've always been fascinated by how people tune into themselves. Whether they use the head, the heart and the gut, and how they use it. Whether they use it all together, whether they find that they tend to use one area in terms of making important decisions in their life. How do you tune into yourself when you need to make decisions?

Kevin Liverpool  25:21

On the issue of whether you follow your head or your heart, I always, or most of the times, follow my heart. For me, I have reached a place where I believe that God is with me, so I go brave. Failure is not a reflection of if God was with me or not. I believe that God is with me on my journey to sustain me, and that he has empowered me to live my life to the fullest potential. Sometimes that involves failure, sometimes that involves unhappy endings. But because I believe that I have my God with me, I go out brave. These are not moral decisions. These are whether I should pursue a particular project, where they should get involved in a particular activity. And once it's connected to the causes that I believe in, I go brave, and I go forward. So yeah, I follow my heart... I follow my passions. Confident, knowing that whether it goes up or down, God is with me.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  26:38

Whether it goes up or down, God is with you. Yup! He's there.

Kevin Liverpool  26:46

Yeah, there are so many examples of people in history who would have weathered this storm. When you look at their life, it's not a straight line of success only. But most of the time they were down, they were out. But then there was that big moment of success that we remember them for. However, it's only when we dig a little deeper, we see that this person had a lot going against them; they had a lot of trials, they had a lot of problems and issues, but they persisted. They kept going. So, I try to model that.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  27:29

Yeah, knowing that the road will be bumpy, and that there will be trials, but you just keep going after what it is you're going after; focused on the outcome. Now, as a school teacher, you would have had certain experiences in your current role, working with young men. If you have to give advice to a young person who is unsure of what path to follow, what would that advice be?

Kevin Liverpool  28:00

I would say to that young person who was listening: always show up. No matter where you are, whether you feel it's the place that you should be, or you're not sure, always show up. Show up everyday. Like you mentioned earlier, be consistent. Be there. Don't be at home, wondering what to do next. Wherever you are, be consistent, show up, be there, be present, observe your surroundings, contribute. Let your voice be heard. Whether or not you think this is the place for you... be present. My aunt used to tell me, "wherever you're planted, bloom. Wherever you're planted, grow". So show up and show up every day - my advice.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  28:59

I like that you've given the examples of showing up, you know, participating. Not just physically being there, but BE there. Actually be. It's very important. Now, are there any other things that you would like to share, that you think is important?

Kevin Liverpool  29:20

Yeah. Because of the issue that we are currently dealing with in Trinidad, surrounding the death of Miss Bharatt. I just want to repeat something that we believe at CariMAN; something that we encourage men and boys to do. I think it's important to repeat in this opportunity. The first is that we always encourage men and boys to look within. Look within and see what attitudes, what behaviours, what biases, what beliefs we have, that may cause harm. I was having a conversation earlier today, and I was saying that when I go through social media, there's a lot of condemnation about what happened, and rightfully so. But there's an ease to believe that the monster is out there; that this is someone who did it. Those men who committed this horrific act, and the men who would have committed countless of violent acts against women in the past, didn't drop down from the sky into Trinidad. They grew up here. They were cultured here. And those same forces and factors that cultured them, culture every boy born in Trinidad - that what goes into young man, goes into a man. What I'm saying is that, the seeds of violence are sown into us all. So it's important for men to look within, and begin plucking out those seeds, and those beliefs and those attitudes, about women, about what manhood is. And those views that create an environment where men are seen as superior and women as inferior. The second thing that we encourage men to do is to listen to the voices of women. There are phrases called, "manterruption", and "mansplaining", where men interrupt women and men always believe that they are competent on every subject. We encourage men to listen to women, and to get critical feedback from women about their experiences, living in a world that is full of sexism, and misogyny. Also to get feedback on their impressions of us: of our behaviour, of our words, our actions. Because women are the ones affected. And to use that feedback from women as part of our healing, and as part of our transformation. The third thing we encourage men and young men to do, is to hold other men accountable. Violence is affirming. So when someone close to you says or does something that is hurtful, and we choose to stay quiet, we affirm what they say, even though in our heart we may say we don't agree; but we affirm what they say. So it's important that we call out other men around us, who are engaging in hurtful behaviour and speech. At CariMAN, we believe there is a time to call out and there's also a time to call in; and a time to call in to have a deeper conversation on why we would say what we say, and why we would think the way we think; why we would do some of the things that we do, and engage in that discussion. But it all requires a level of accountability for ourselves and holding other men accountable for their words and actions. We believe that most men have learned how to be men in very unhealthy ways. In order to begin to transform that, it requires healing; it requires men to be vulnerable, to begin to analyze their lives and be honest and open about it. I'll end at that point. But it's really important, especially now given what is happening, that we really begin to work together for sustained impact on transforming our boys and our men.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  33:53

I wondered: if someone wants to get in contact with you, is there an organization  that you can call? I mean, like if somebody's heard this and they say to themselves that they've done some introspection and they realize that they need some help and some support, in moving forward. Because sometimes, when they look in the mirror, they really don't like what they see. And therefore, they want to shift, but they need help. How can they get help?

Kevin Liverpool  34:26

They can reach out to us via email at carimansecretariat@gmail.com. They can also each us via phone: our number is 8682410821, and they can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and leave a message there, and we will reach out to them. Because we're a network of organizations, we would be able, based on the request and based on the needs, we can be able to connect them to an organization that's suitable.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  35:15

What is your Facebook handle?

Kevin Liverpool  35:17

It's CariMAN, or Caribbean Male Action Network.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  35:22

Well, Kevin, thank you. Thank you so much for this interview. I think it was very timely. And I wish you all the best and much success as you continue to do work that is so sorely needed.

Kevin Liverpool  35:41

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

Beverly Foster-Hinds  35:50

Thank you for listening to this episode of Tune Into Yourself. I would like to use a popular quote from Amanda Gorman, to summarize this episode. "There is always light, if only we're brave enough to see it. If only we're brave enough to be it." Please like, comment, subscribe, and share and take care until we meet next time.